Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Whether it's pushpin, poetry or neither, you can discuss it here.

Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby Arepo on 2009-05-09T12:10:00

Anders Sandberg argues against the morality of filesharing (actually he claims that he's only examining social attitudes to it, but I think he's doing so as an indirect argument about morality):

Intuitive pirates: why do we accept file sharing so much?

Piracy is in the headlines, whether in Somalian waters or Swedish cyberspace. A Stockholm court this friday found four men guilty of promoting copyright infringement by running the popular file-sharing site The Pirate Bay and sentenced them to one year in prison as well as a 30 million kronor fine (about $3.5 million). The case will no doubt go to a higher court and the circus (as well as the piracy) will continue. Legally, at least in the sense of the spirit of the laws banning copyright infringement, the case is pretty clear. But morally, what is wrong with file sharing? And why don't people care?

The morally most relevant activity is going on among the millions of people actually doing the file sharing. From an ethical standpoint what the Pirate Bay did was merely helping people act in a certain way. It did not induce them to download the required software, look for downloads or upload their digital possessions, it just facilitated the process. Helping people to act in a bad way can be wrong, but it is rarely worse than the bad act iself.

One might argue that the facilitation if it is great enough is an inducement and might even be worse than individual acts: if a billionaire announces he will pay a pound to everyone who kills one butterfly, then the guilt of the ecological damage might accumulate more on him rather than the individuals. But in the case of file sharing, such sites would not be relevant if there was not an enormous amount of sharing going on already.

If the punishment is an indicator, society on a formal level regards copyright infringement as a serious crime. A one year prison sentence is typical for assault or (perhaps fittingly) handling stolen goods. Since the court were only examining the crime of making 20 songs, 9 films and 4 computer games available this is pretty impressive. The economic damage caused by The Pirate Bay is impossible to measure, but at least according to the content industry enormous and a major societal problem. However, they have a clear biasing interest and independent estimates vary widely. It is somewhat jarring to note that in another case, the family of a murder victim were awarded just 40,000 kronor for their loss, but due to bureaucratic decision they eventually got no money at all (Swedish article).

The individual views of people often diverge strongly from the formal level (especially in cases like the above murder victim compensation). The average Swede is likely far more accepting of copyright infringement than the court, and many have remarked on the severity of the judgement. Obviously millions are actively file-sharing and there is a noticeable political movement seeking to legalize it - despite arguments which I think are rather weak.

Rather than trying to examine how wrong infringement is, it might be more fruitful to study why people are not strongly against it.

Intuitions and copyright infringement

Just as naval piracy is something more complex than "robbing people using a ship" information piracy is not just simply theft, as some opponents commonly claim. The key difference is that while copyright infringement may cause an economic loss it does not appropriate the object or deprive the copyright holder of the use of the copyright. Information is a non-rival good, and its value can change in nontrivial ways by becoming more accessible (e.g. widespread software piracy has probably helped expensive software such as Photoshop and Windows to become standard even in poorer countries).

The concept of ownership is deeply ingrained in all humans, perhaps evolved from territoriality. It can be clearly observed when playing with children, who at an early age become aware that certain toys are theirs and become upset if others play with them. This innate "intuitive ownership" works well with material objects, which tend to be rival goods. It makes sense to have a right to exclude others from the property (since their use is rival) and control how it is used. On a more adult level, we tend to add principles such as the right to benefit from the property and a right to transfer or sell it. If somebody handles our property without our permission we tend to become upset on an emotional level, regardless of any tangible loss. This is also why communal property is hard to maintain: it is non-intuitive, if people have no ties to it they will tend to undervalue/undermaintain it, and if they have strong ties there is a risk of jealousy.

Unfortunately these ownership intuitions generalizes badly for intellectual property. It is intangible and non-rival. Most of our intellectual properties are not ours either - they have been produced by other people and we have bought instances of them. This leads to two problems: first, we do not have a strong attachment to them. If somebody copies a digital book from me, I do not mind that he then rewrites it in an obscene way. The author of the book on the other hand may be upset - there is still an attachment to the product of their mind. Second, the long chains of ownership and licencing weakens our sense of ownership: much of the software on our computers is merely legally licenced from a corporation, which often is not even the employer of the programmers who actually wrote it. If somebody copies it, we do not feel any loss. The people who might be worse off are all upstream and highly abstract to us, and their loss due any individual act of infringement is apparently minor.

My conclusion is that the nature of intellectual property makes it hard to maintain the social and empathic constraints that keeps us from taking each other's things.

Furthermore, in western culture (and many others) economic aspects of society have also been systematically denigrated, often described as a regrettable necessity for the "real" emotional social life that holds true value. Often "commercial" is used to denote something which is not authentic and often at odds with authenticity. This means that the economic loss argument (creators will not get paid, less incentive to create) is weakened. In fact, since we are often told how bad the commercial aspects of life are, anti-commercial infringement may appear morally neutral or good. That just leaves concerns about content producer's moral rights to control how their products are used, a threat to their identity or autonomy. But again, if the distance to the real creator is long anti-commercial views have a good chance to dominate - few people think Disney Corporation is suffering an infringed identity if an alternate Mickey Mouse is drawn. We respect the moral rights of human creators, but not corporations.

The combination of weak intuitions, a bias against commercial interests and powerfully diffused responsibility makes people quite willing to engage in an activity they would not do if it was tangible and personal. Laws are not going to change this unless the threat of discovery is serious. So maybe the best way of getting rid of infringement would be to reduce the social distance between creators and consumers, restore respect for commercial gain and especially to make the consequences of actions concrete.

Qui nebono?


The real problem with the case may not be for the pirates, but for Google, Facebook, YouTube and social media. After all, if it is criminal to provide a service that makes it easy to download copyrighted information, then they would likely be criminal. The fact that they are not intended for this purpose and that legitimate use dwarfs the piracy is probably not relevant. The key issue is that they provide indexes and search functions that enable downloading of information with no control over its copyright status: they are in many ways as much tracker sites as The Pirate Bay. Illegalizing linking to forbidden information is problematic, especially since such bans may need to be transitive - essentially banning the ability to search for anything that could lead to anything illegal.

Better information technology will make it easier and cheaper to copy and spread information of any kind - and more and more of our economic value will reside as information rather than matter. Current attempts at regulation seek to ensure that concepts of property best suited for material objects are imposed on things that are not, and often overshoot their target of ensuring commercial compensation by impeding privacy, technological development and other important freedoms. No wonder the content industry is lacking friends.

So far the only ones who have clearly gained something is the Swedish Piracy Party, who gained thousands of new members and might have a plausible shot in the EU elections in June as a protest vote, and the National Museum of Science and Technology who bought one of the The Pirate Bay servers and is now putting it on display.


Original post with some commentary at Practical Ethics (and given the subject matter, it might be worth repeating that I've got Anders' permission to repost here :))
"These were my only good shoes."
"You ought to have put on an old pair, if you wished to go a-diving," said Professor Graham, who had not studied moral philosophy in vain.
User avatar
Arepo
 
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:49 am

Re: Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby Arepo on 2009-05-09T12:51:00

Re buying 'a specific instance' of IP. IP laws seem quite inconsistent on this. If I buy a CD from Sony, as I understand it, what I've supposedly bought is that CD, not the data on it. But there are also laws in the English-speaking world at least limiting what I can do with that CD. I don't remember their exact form, but I believe that I'm not allowed to play 'my' copy of the CD in a public area, (especially?) as part of a commercial enterprise. Similarly, I'm not allowed to stream it online without paying a royalty for the privilege, even if the listeners are unable to retain or request the data (hence Pandora having to block non-US users).

Part of the problem is vagueness about what constitutes transferring data. There's no obviously non-arbitrary place to draw the line, unless perhaps you want to outlaw every use except licking the CD.

From a utilitarian perspective, I think Kaj's first response to Anders' post (which I haven't got permission from the author to repost here) is a devastating salvo. Sure it's one-sided, but I've never seen anyone argue empirically against his points - and the burden of proof must surely lie heavily with those who favour punitive laws.
"These were my only good shoes."
"You ought to have put on an old pair, if you wished to go a-diving," said Professor Graham, who had not studied moral philosophy in vain.
User avatar
Arepo
 
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:49 am

Re: Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby DanielLC on 2009-05-10T15:11:00

If you pirate a file, it increases your happiness and doesn't hurt anyone else. It doesn't encourage anyone to make the file. If you buy it legally, it may or may not increase your happiness, and helps the company. It also encourages people to make more files like that. If you don't by the file, nobody is helped or hurt. The first alternative is always better than the last. Assuming you think it's worth the money, and it doesn't decrease the amount you donate to charity, the second is probably better than the first. If you're not a utilitarian and you think it's worth the money, you should pay for it. If you are a utilitarian, or don't think it's worth the money, pirate it.

Interestingly, although the government seems to be against piracy in most forms, it spends a significant amount of money on public libraries. Any idea why that is?

There was a fake protest by improv everywhere against libraries.
Consequentialism: The belief that doing the right thing makes the world a better place.

DanielLC
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby RyanCarey on 2009-05-11T03:05:00

Well, while Anders isn't overtly persuading us to adopt his position on file-sharing, his disagreement with it can be read between the lines of his piece. Personally, I find the moral discussion of piracy fascinating. In today’s youth, piracy dominates. I've grown up as a religious defender of intellectual property (an anti-pirate), but I have come around to the position that piracy is the right thing to do in a vast array of circumstances.

Now, there is a clear advantage to piracy: the pirate gets some free stuff. Imagine you had a replicator-gun which you could replicate any property by aiming it and pulling the trigger. Would you not use it to replicate your neighbours’ cars, houses, etc. And once you had satisfied your own needs and wants, would you not replicate some houses, cars and so on for poor families in the third world?

Many argue that piracy is a victimless crime. However, piracy does have disadvantages, they’re just not so obvious as the advantages.

Intellectual property defender, James V. Delong explains: This argument that free-riding is not a problem in the context of intellectual property has force only in the limited context of a society without barter or specialization of labor. When these elements are introduced, it weakens.

To illustrate this, imagine a situation involving tangible property. Suppose X is an expert arrow maker but a terrible stalker. He spends his time fletching, trading the arrows to better hunters in exchange for a share of the kill. They get good arrows, which enables them to kill more game, the arrow maker gets fed, and all are content. If Y steals a batch of arrows from X, he does not deprive X of arrows to shoot. After all, X is producing more arrows than he personally can use, especially since he is not a good enough stalker to get close to a deer. What has been taken is his livelihood, or his ability to barter, or his time
...

Innovation will spread more rapidly if inventors have incentives to find new uses for their creations and to open up new markets for them.
...

The thief, Y, makes everyone poorer, including his fellow hunters. If X cannot make a living by making arrows that he trades for game, then he will be forced to give up fletching and hunt his own food. Everyone else will also be forced to return to a nonspecialized system in which each makes his own arrows and does his own hunting. This decreases both the absolute amount of game killed, because the hunters must spend time making arrows, and the value of the game that the hunters do kill, because it no longer has an exchange value. Nor does Y actually do the hunters a long-term favor if, after the theft, he shouts ‘‘arrows want to be free’’ and passes his loot out to them, thus destroying the system for a shortterm gain.


So, we have two analogies for piracy: a replicator gun and an arrow-theif. Both represent piracy fairly accurate and are quite persuasive. So how can we reconcile the two?

[spoiler=read this detailed section if you’re quite keenly interested in the topic]Well, firstly, we must cast away the emotional arguments from both sides. That is, we should acknowledge that participants and audiences mostly find theft distasteful. So to label piracy theft is to step outside the bounds of rational debate. We should, as James confidently argues, not accept that information wants to be free, just on the basis of the short-term advantages of piracy. But nor should we accept that James’ fletcher has an inalienable right to his arrows and their exchange value.

Secondly, we should grant that a replicator-gun could vastly improve the world. Musicians who voluntarily make their music freely available to download can brighten up many lives. Piracy (involuntary replication) of music has increased the amount of music available but decreased the amount that people pay for it. Which is really good for people who listen to music. It’s kind-of similar to radio and to public libraries.

Thirdly, we need to admit that there may be no perfect way to exploit this replicator-gun. It’s hard to demand that musicians work for no money by voluntary or involuntary replication of their music. We could give musicians the replicator-gun, and require them to charge very little for replicas that they create. However, people mightn’t buy music even at 10c per song because of fear of putting credit-card details on the internet. Maybe national governments could pay for the royalties to a hundred popular albums and then freely distribute these online. But which would be chosen? What if your favourite artists don’t make the list? Will this stifle musicians’ creative processes?[/spoiler]

Fourthly, it’s clear that piracy is sometimes beneficial. If a highly philanthropic person pirates their music and donates the money they save to charity, on the balance of things, that’s a good thing. If a student commits a generous portion of his budget to textbooks and then downloads those that he cannot afford, it’s a good thing.

But should we advocate use of a replicator gun by individuals who aren’t highly philanthropic and aren’t already buying all they can afford? It’s hurting industry. Would we want to live in a world with fewer new songs, books, and other publications? I think that better than spend lots of money on music is to download music that is voluntarily free. And better than to download music that is voluntarily free is to download the best music irrespective of whether it has been replicated voluntarily or involuntarily and then to give some money to the artists who created the most enjoyable and innovative music. So I predict that over time, industries susceptible to our replicator-gun will shrink drastically, will release a more narrow range of products more cheaply. But if we continue to give them some money for their work, we can still sustain a small core of innovators who can deliver us a continually improving product.
You can read my personal blog here: CareyRyan.com
User avatar
RyanCarey
 
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:01 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby DanielLC on 2009-05-22T16:08:00

I don't get the arrow analogy. If you steal the arrows, it means the guy has to make more arrows than if you made them yourself.

I think there a few cases where piracy is perfectly fine:
Music. I'm not sure what the music industry spends its money on, but I'm fairly certain it isn't musicians. Even if they get payed practically nothing, there will still be enough of them to fulfill all our music needs.
School books. The way the system works, there's no incentive to make them cheap. As such, they are sold for far above what they should be.
Consequentialism: The belief that doing the right thing makes the world a better place.

DanielLC
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby Arepo on 2009-05-22T21:27:00

I've been thinking along similar lines. It doesn't make much sense to discuss IP in total. As you say, music is never going to dry up, and since piracy would reduce the nag factor (ie parents buying music for their nagging kids), those who could make a living would be those whose purchasers liked them. It seems like that would probably make the average quality a bit higher.

The other thing is even if it did dry up, there's already far more music out there than anyone could listen to in a lifetime, so nothing would really be lost. The same goes for most forms of art.

I'm not sure why school books would stand out. You could use the same arguments as above for pirating novels and the like, but they don't apply to schoolbooks - as research progresses, new editions have to come out. I think the key with music and art is that they don't really get better over time, so we don't have any cause for concern if they dry up.

So IMO it's not clear that piracy in any cases does harm overall, but it's clear in some that it doesn't.
"These were my only good shoes."
"You ought to have put on an old pair, if you wished to go a-diving," said Professor Graham, who had not studied moral philosophy in vain.
User avatar
Arepo
 
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:49 am

Re: Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby DanielLC on 2009-05-23T00:40:00

The people who choose the school books don't tend to pay for them in any significant way, and as such, put less emphasis on how much the books cost than they should. This gives the books an inflated market value. The problem with piracy is that it lowers the demand and therefore the price, thus causing it to go below market value. In the case of school books, piracy will make it get closer to market value, and thus be a good thing. It would be bad if everyone pirated school books, but they don't.

This whole debate seems rather pointless, as anyone that isn't a utilitarian wouldn't accept the premises of our arguments, and anyone who is would have better things to do with their money, and thus it would be a good idea for them to pirate.
Consequentialism: The belief that doing the right thing makes the world a better place.

DanielLC
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby Arepo on 2009-05-24T10:14:00

I don't think your second paragraph is right. A lot of people who wouldn't identify as pure utilitarians are happy to use utilititarian reasoning much or most of the time, and a few people who do make serious (albeit rubbish, imho) arguments against donating money. Garrett Hardin, for eg. To be fair, his arguments still imply that you could give it to first world causes, but that's not how I usually see utilitarian libertarians interpret them.

I also disagree mildly with the first, in that 'choosing' is a pretty nebulous concept at the best of times.
"These were my only good shoes."
"You ought to have put on an old pair, if you wished to go a-diving," said Professor Graham, who had not studied moral philosophy in vain.
User avatar
Arepo
 
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:49 am

Re: Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby DanielLC on 2009-05-24T15:41:00

Perhaps we should say they should pirate the stuff and give half of it to a good charity, as it's a better thing to do and better than them. When you get right down to it, if you don't have to pay for something, paying for it is effectively charity, and, in all probability, not the best one.

Contrary to popular belief, Wikipedia does not have an article on everything. The broken textbook market only has a section.
Consequentialism: The belief that doing the right thing makes the world a better place.

DanielLC
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby Arepo on 2009-05-24T23:24:00

I work for a company that makes most of its revenue through textbooks, and that doesn't entirely ring true. I don't know what the company finances look like, (and I'm not sure how much I can discuss work, so I'd better err towards caution) so I have to speculate a bit. But a few related observations:

Lecturers generally have the best interests of students in mind. If two textbooks of equal value have wildly divergent prices, they'll usually go for the cheaper one, IME. They have no incentive to buy the more expensive version.

Lecturers are always given free copies of new editions on request, when planning their courses. So if the content doesn't justify the new book, they can continue using the old one. Theoretically the old ed will go out of print, but it's easy enough to find copies on Amazon.

Publishing already has pretty low profit margins compared to other industries. Take away a significant amount of textbook revenue, and most commercial publishers would fold very quickly.

As the Wikipedia article hints at, I suspect lack of competition is more of a driving force. Part of that will be due to the diminishing number of publishers, and part to the fact that there's not much incentive for anyone to write a textbook - you have to be eminently qualified in the field, you have to be quite readable (which eliminates >50% of academics on the spot), you get virtually no credit for it, and you'll still need to put in a lot of research.

As you say, voluntary payment is effectively charity, so I'm not really taking a position here. That logic could be extended beyond the virtual realm to physical theft (especially of small, easily reproducable objects like CDs), which would surely have drastic implications.
"These were my only good shoes."
"You ought to have put on an old pair, if you wished to go a-diving," said Professor Graham, who had not studied moral philosophy in vain.
User avatar
Arepo
 
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:49 am

Re: Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby Arepo on 2009-05-24T23:33:00

Looking at Wikipedia, I came across this guy who proposes banning (or at least legislating to raise the cost of) used textbook sales as a solution. That at any rate seems like a horrific idea.

Seems to me a better idea (if used textbooks really are the problem, which isn't obvious) that doesn't involve further legal repression would be textbook rentals. Since courses run for fixed and relatively short duration it shouldn't be too hard to envision a suitable scheme.
"These were my only good shoes."
"You ought to have put on an old pair, if you wished to go a-diving," said Professor Graham, who had not studied moral philosophy in vain.
User avatar
Arepo
 
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:49 am

Re: Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby DanielLC on 2009-05-25T05:40:00

According to the wikipedia article, they commonly don't even disclose the price, which would make choosing cheaper books difficult, to say the least.

Reselling textbooks makes them cost more when you buy them, but the fact that you can sell them again makes up for it. The uncertainty is an additional cost, but the fact that you only have to print the book once gives savings. If it is cheaper to not resell books, I doubt it would be worth making a law about it.

They way I'd solve the textbook problem (among others), is having the teachers control the price of their class, and get the money minus a certain amount that goes to the school. If they choose expensive books, they have to make class that much cheaper, effectively making them pay for it.

I don't see how rentals would be significantly different than buying the book and selling it again. Also, it would only decrease printing costs. It would not fix a broken market.

Thanks to the way the market works, you can estimate how much they should be making by taking their capital costs, multiplying it by the prevailing interest rates, and adjusting for risk. If you know how much the company is worth, you can just compare that to capital costs.

I'd also like to point out that having someone else's best interests in mind doesn't tend to result in what's best for them. As proof, Seeing Eye gets more donations than the Fred Hollows foundation, despite being three orders of magnitude less efficient.
Consequentialism: The belief that doing the right thing makes the world a better place.

DanielLC
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby Arepo on 2009-05-25T10:46:00

DanielLC wrote:According to the wikipedia article, they commonly don't even disclose the price, which would make choosing cheaper books difficult, to say the least.


That sounds like nonsense. If it's true, it must be a very rare practice. Go to the websites of Wiley, OUP, Routledge, etc, on the webpage for any book you can see or easily find a price. Even if you can't, you can guarantee their books will be on Amazon (where an ever-increasing amount of their income comes from), with an RRP right next to them.

They way I'd solve the textbook problem (among others), is having the teachers control the price of their class, and get the money minus a certain amount that goes to the school. If they choose expensive books, they have to make class that much cheaper, effectively making them pay for it.


If the teachers normally need regulation to make them look after the interests of their students, I think there's something far more rotten in the teaching system than the textbook market. But as I've said, I don't believe they do. Most lecturers and teachers I've known's first loyalty is to their students, sometimes to the extent of risking prosecution by providing them with copyrighted materials.

I don't see how rentals would be significantly different than buying the book and selling it again. Also, it would only decrease printing costs. It would not fix a broken market.


It shifts some of the risk to the publisher, and takes away business from the supposedly 'parasitic' second hand book vendors. I don't know what you mean by 'only decrease printing costs' - you'd expect to have roughly the same number of books in circulation, but more of the 'resale' profit would return to the publisher. Calling the market either 'broken' or not is obviously oversimplifying. There are hundreds of industries where the ideal of competition doesn't work perfectly, that's why we don't live in a perfectly libertarian state. Textbooks seem a lot better than something like trains, for eg.

I'd also like to point out that having someone else's best interests in mind doesn't tend to result in what's best for them. As proof, Seeing Eye gets more donations than the Fred Hollows foundation, despite being three orders of magnitude less efficient.


Not sure why this is important, but it's not a good example. Seeing Eye has the best interests of blind people in the developed world in mind, FHF focuses on the best interests of blind Africans. The latter seems to coincide, perhaps deliberately, with the (at least short term) total welfare of humanity, but they're not in direct competition.
"These were my only good shoes."
"You ought to have put on an old pair, if you wished to go a-diving," said Professor Graham, who had not studied moral philosophy in vain.
User avatar
Arepo
 
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:49 am

Re: Anders Sandberg: File Sharing

Postby DanielLC on 2009-05-25T14:58:00

Arepo wrote:If the teachers normally need regulation to make them look after the interests of their students, I think there's something far more rotten in the teaching system than the textbook market. But as I've said, I don't believe they do. Most lecturers and teachers I've known's first loyalty is to their students, sometimes to the extent of risking prosecution by providing them with copyrighted materials.


That was supposed to be less regulated.

It shifts some of the risk to the publisher, and takes away business from the supposedly 'parasitic' second hand book vendors.


If there costs are about the same as the second-hand vendors, they'd expect to make about the same profit from that section, and act the same.

Calling the market either 'broken' or not is obviously oversimplifying. There are hundreds of industries where the ideal of competition doesn't work perfectly, that's why we don't live in a perfectly libertarian state. Textbooks seem a lot better than something like trains, for eg.


It never works perfectly but it almost always works very well. I'm not sure what the problem with trains you're referring to is, unless you count subsidies. I know there's stuff about the price being higher when there's only one train company in the area, but that's necessary to provide sufficient incentive for building trains when there are none in the area.

I'd also like to point out that having someone else's best interests in mind doesn't tend to result in what's best for them. As proof, Seeing Eye gets more donations than the Fred Hollows foundation, despite being three orders of magnitude less efficient.


Not sure why this is important, but it's not a good example. Seeing Eye has the best interests of blind people in the developed world in mind, FHF focuses on the best interests of blind Africans. The latter seems to coincide, perhaps deliberately, with the (at least short term) total welfare of humanity, but they're not in direct competition.


What, so Seeing Eye and the people who donate to it are just racist? I find it more likely that most of them have the best interests of people in general in mind, and just don't realize how pathetically inefficient that charity is.

Edit: Back to the point, if the textbook companies are even making slightly more money than they should, you should still pirate the books. You're only decreasing their revenues by a few hundred dollars.
Consequentialism: The belief that doing the right thing makes the world a better place.

DanielLC
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:29 pm


Return to General discussion