The link between Mind and Social / Environmental-Issues.

The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems besides destroying the environment. All issues are interlinked. Our Minds cannot be peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be peaceful if we destroy Nature.

The first rule of sustainability is - destroy less.

The fewer things we make the more sustainable we are.

A society that destroys ecosystems for "consumer goods" in addition to food, clothing and shelter is the least sustainable - and will exist for the shortest duration.

Industrial society has destroyed necessary things [animals, trees, air, water and land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].

In "Industrial Society" work turns into overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.


"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"
These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".

Infinite growth and development on a small planet that is just 40,000 km in circumference? - Industrial Society is insane.



To read the full article please follow any of these links :

http://www.envirolink.org/forum/viewtop ... f=3&t=2915
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/vie ... php?t=1796
http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/phpbb/vi ... 5&t=145350


sushil_yadav
Delhi , India
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

I have a few comments on the proposed study and some examples of existing research that shows something similar, but first....

This forum would be more focussed on a discussion of why it is that you (and others) believe that consumerism is a crime against nature. I am familiar with models of ecologically responsible behavior, so I tend to describe such issues from a psychological viewpoint, but the challenge of changing such behavior through the philosophy of this forum would probably include a demonstration of the many ways that the natural environment benefits humans or perhaps how nature has intrinsic value that is important to humans.

As for why people fail to see the value in nature, I could suggest many things, one of which is the preoccupation with consumerism and other worldly pursuits that stem, in part, from a failure to understand the invalidity of social value placed on socio-economic status. In other words, from the philosophy of utilitarianism, I would say that people cannot simply start weighing utility of nature because they begin the analysis with faulty ideas that they adopted from their cultural surrounding without the scrutiny of reason.

As for the study you described, my first comment is that in many places you mention "emotion" when the study itself addresses only "empathy." People can have many emotions while absorbed in the consumerist delusion: envy, fear, jealousy, anger.... Unfortunately, envy, fear (of somebody discovering that you really aren’t cool), jealousy, and the like do not produce behaviors that are good for humans in the long run. Empathy is useful because it can lead to prosocial behavior and ecologically responsible behavior.

Another way to explore the proposed study is to first review the mountains of research that shows that perspective-taking increases empathy, which increases altruisitic behavior, then show that people in certain modes of existence fail to take the time to consider other people (or animals or nature). Here is one study that might be related to your topic. The general idea is that when people misunderstand the origins of their emotions, they respond differently to those emotions. Coke, Batson, and McDavis (1978) played a recording of a radio program about a girl whose parents died in a car crash. Some were then asked to imagine how the girl felt and some reviewed broadcasting techniques (as a control treatment). Before the study, participants were given a pill, half were told that it would relax them and half were told that it would arouse them. The results showed that those in the relaxation condition gave much more money than those in the arousal condition, and those who imagined the girls situation have the most (Coke et al., 1978, p. 756). In other words, when people mistakenly thought that their emotional experience was caused by the pill and not their feelings of empathy, they did not respond in the appropriate manner. The link to your study might be that people who live hectic lives are under stress (or other emotional influences) fail to properly identify emotions that are really caused from empathy or something like it. Their second study was similar but used electrodes and false feedback to tell (randomly) some people that they had a strong emotional response to the story about people dying in the car crash. Those who were (randomly) told that they had a strong emotional impact gave more money to help (because of they way they interpreted their alleged emotional reaction).

There was another study that I can’t find right now, but the general idea was this. Students were given a task to take something across campus. Some were told that they had to get to the other building as fast as possible and others were given plenty of time. Those who were under time pressure were much less likely to help a stranger. I think this study was from the 1970s or 1980s, perhaps by Cialdini, Batson, Shalom Schwartz, or Dovidio, and it might have focussed on the effects of egoistic concern or stress on altruistic behavior or helping behavior (if you find it, let me know). The point is that people under stress don't consider things outside themselves (or at least act as if they don't).

Reference

Coke, J. S., Batson, C. D., & McDavis, K. (1978). Empathic mediation of helping: A two-stage model. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 36(7), 752–766. DOI: 10.1037/0022-3514.36.7.752

rehoot,

Thanks for your post.

Empathy/ compassion has got very little role in saving environment.

Over-exploitation of environment became possible only because of modern technology and machines.

It is industrial activity that has produced billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous waste - billions of tones of metal waste, plastic waste, chemical waste, eWaste, nuclear waste...

Logging industry and mining industry have cut down most of the forests.

Industrial activity has decimated animals and trees - industrial activity has poisoned air, water and land.


Without modern technology it was impossible to over-exploit nature.

With modern technology it is impossible to stop over-exploitation of nature.


sushil_yadav

Food, Clothing & Shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans....... Industrial consumer goods must be eliminated immediately.

Industrial Society is doing research on sustainability after destroying 75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems. Nature has already done millions of years of research on sustainability.......Nature has already given us millions of years of proof of sustainability. Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years because their activity was limited to searching for food. Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years because their activity was limited to searching for food. Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society]because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.



For the last 50 years Intellectuals have been debating what is good for Environment......Capitalist Industrial Society, Communist Industrial Society or Socialist Industrial Society?

This is like debating what is good for people.....Capitalist Poison, Communist Poison or Socialist Poison.

Poison kills people.....it does'nt matter who made it ......Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

Industrial Activity kills ecosystems.....It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

All Industrial Activity destroys environment......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network and Shipping Lanes…..they all destroy environment….. It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

American Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…..Russian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Chinese Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…….Indian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Every Industrial Society destroys ecosystems…… It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

In just 250 years Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Forests, Wild Animals and Fish Population......Population of Lions, Tigers and Elephants is down to 2 - 5% of what it was 100 years ago......Population of Large Fish in Oceans is down to 10% of what it was 100 years ago.....Industrial Society has poisoned the entire planet with Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste, Nuclear Waste.....It has killed Trillions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of acres of Fertile Soil with Cement And Concrete.

Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years[compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed almost all Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it is destroying environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter......And even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.



There is only one cause of environmental destruction......Industrialization.

Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are only consequences/ by-products of Industrialization.

Overconsumerism is quite obviously a consequence of Industrialization..... Industrial consumer goods and services would not exist without Industrial Activity.

Overpopulation is also a by-product of Industrialization. The entire world was overbreeding until the middle years of 20th century.....even Western Countries had 5 - 12 children per family[and even more].....and yet population of the world remained low before industrialization because of high death rate, lower life span and shortage of food and water. It was only 1 billion in 1800 AD. India and China have large populations today because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago, since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions. What was the population of Europe/ America/ West 2000 years ago????......Was it comparable to eastern population of India and China????

Industrialization is the cause of overpopulation and overconsumerism.

Moreover, Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.

Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.

When we talk of population we should take into account population of all animal species, not just human population.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species. The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species.....but there was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....the combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.

The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.

The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????

What is the cause of human overpopulation??????......It is Industrialization......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion today ........In the absence of Industrialization world population would only be a small fraction of 7 billion today.

It is not population that destroys environment......It is lifestyle.......The combined population of millions of animal species was much greater than present human population.......and yet they did not destroy environment for millions of years because they destroyed environment only for Food.......not for Thousands of Consumer Goods.

The cause of Environmental Destruction is Industrialization / Consumerism.........Not population / overpopulation.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would not destroy environment [And a Hunter_Gatherer Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would cause much lesser environmental destruction than an Industrial Society of 7 billion [And an Agrarian Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]

Industrialization is the cause of Human Overpopulation and Overconsumerism

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.

Height of Insanity!

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

There's more to how much we can support than the amount of natural resources. Infrastructure and technological advance are necessary too. If we do a certain amount of damage to the environment, the opportunity cost is the same as if we fail to build a certain amount of infrastructure, or fail to do a certain amount of scientific research. As such, it is commonly worth while to destroy a certain amount of the environment to help us in other ways.

Consumerism helps none of these, and it would be much better in the long run if we could cut down on it as a society. That being said, we should only worry about saving the environment insomuch as its value will increase fast enough to make up for the the high future value of current investments. If cutting our power consumption in half now will double our economic output in a hundred years due to the greenhouse effect, it's not worth it. If it will multiply it by a factor of 10 in a thousand years, it's not even worth considering.

I just made those numbers up. I don't know whether we exploit the environment too much or too little. I'm just pointing out that it is possible to exploit it too little.

Also, none of this takes into account the intrinsic value of the environment. I should point out that it's not necessarily positive. There is a lot of suffering going on in the wild.

sushil_yadav wrote:Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.

I have three responses to this. The first one is the obvious and somewhat cheap point that you're being inconsistent by typing this message into a globally connected computer terminal. The second is that I have no intention of living with my consumption reduced to food, clothing and shelter. I'd rather not exist.

The most important point is that I don't share the almost religious belief that nature has intrinsic value. In my mind, consciousness-supporting nature is an evolved accident, a pathological state to be overcome by intelligence - either by transformation or destruction.

Compare Earth 50 million years ago, before civilization existed, with Venus. I submit to you that Venus was in a better state precisely because no large-scale involuntary suffering existed on it. I submit to you that Venus still is in a better state than Earth today, for the same reason.

If you care to familiarize yourself with the Abolitionist Project, you will realize that the end of suffering - through other means than destruction - is only possible through high technology, which is intrically linked, at least indirectly, to the general customs and freedoms of a consumerist society.

Nature is not a loving mother. It doesn't have intrinsic value. It is a non-intentional purposeless system that causes fun and pleasure, but also extreme harm and agony to uncounted billions of non-consenting sentient entities within it. If anything, we're not destroying it fast enough.

You are right about one thing, however: We often consume goods that promise us happiness without delivering it. That, too, is a state to overcome.

Industrial Society is a lunatic society that is trying to save environment not by stopping Industrial Activity but by changing the technology.

Bring this technology, Bring that technology..........Bring this technology, Bring that technology.

A man is shooting someone with a gun........Some people are trying to save the victim.......They plead with the man asking him to save the victim by stopping the shooting.

The man says.....Don't worry......I will save him by changing technology......He replaces the old gun with a new one ........And continues to shoot.

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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ......

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

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Discussion cannot save environment........Money cannot save environment......Technology cannot save environment......Environmental Organizations cannot save environment.......Activism cannot save environment.

Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through discussion......They did not even have a language for discussing environmental issues.

Animal species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment with money ........They had no money.

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with modern technology........They had no modern technology......It was absence of modern technology that saved environment in pre-industrial societies........Over-exploitation of ecosystems became possible only because of Industrial Machines.

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with the help of Environmental Organizations or Activism........They had no environmental organizations.

Animal Species did not destroy environment for millions of years.......Hunter Gatherer Society destroyed very little environment during a million years of existence......Agrarian Society destroyed very little environment [compared to Industrial Society] over a period of 10,000 years.

There is only one way to save environment.......Destroy less......Minimize the list of things that are destroying environment.

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Promoters of Growth rate, Economy Rate and GDP are the biggest terrorists on earth.......Millions of times bigger terrorists than Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Our society has placed a bounty of millions of dollars on the heads of Taliban and Al Qaeda

No bounty on the heads of people who promoted Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth???

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that produced Trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste that has contaminated and poisoned the entire planet......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated millions of animal and plant species......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed billions of acres of fertile soil with cement, concrete and asphalt......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated fish in the oceans......It was Industrial Fishing.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed millions of people in wars.......It was Military Industrial Complex.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.

For millions of years before industrialization the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.......Animals destroyed environment for food......Hunter_Gatherer Society destroyed environment for food......Agrarian Society destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Development is Destruction........Development is Destruction.

"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"
These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "Crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "Destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".

Promoters of Growth Rate, Economy Rate & GDP are the biggest Killers, Murderers & Terrorists on earth.

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Environment has been destroyed by Cities.......Environment has been destroyed by Urban Dwellers.........City People are doing extra work which has led to exponential "extra destruction of environment".......... Urban Dwellers are the destroyers of Forests, Villages, Tribal Land, Rivers, Oceans and Atmosphere.

For millions of years "searching for food" / “producing food” were the primary activities of animal species, hunter_gatherer society and agrarian society.........and that is why they sustained for millions of years because they destroyed very little environment compared to Industrial Society.......For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.

In Industrial Society 50% of world population is growing food for 100% of population and the remaining 50% living in cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of "thousands of consumer goods and services".

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population exists in this world.

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is promoting Industrial Activity.

Industrial Activity is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Consumerism is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Destruction of environment is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Most of the people who do not produce food are engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

Most of the urban population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

In America 90 - 95% of population is urban......In Europe 80 – 90% of population is urban......this is why consumerism is so rampant in US and West.

World wide the percentage of urban population is about 50%.......If the entire world is made communist or socialist it is not going to stop/ reduce consumerism as long as the percentage of urban population remains the same.

As long as Urban Population exists all Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand........ Energy Generation Industry, Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction Industry, Oil Drilling Industry, Oil Refining Industry, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Network, Millions of kilometers of Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.....all these Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand.

This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.

This planet cannot sustain Urban population.

Environment has been destroyed primarily by Urban Population......Environment has been destroyed primarily by population that does not produce food.

This planet can only sustain a society in which [almost] the entire population is engaged in producing food.

One profession means destruction of environment for one thing.......Thousands of professions means destruction of environment for thousands of things.

Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it has destroyed environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter".

The list of unnecessary and destructive work in Industrial Society includes......Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of "Consumer Goods" and Services, Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex, All kinds of unnecessary Research .....and lots of other work.

Out of the population that does not produce Food, the maximum number of people - a few billion people are engaged in Production and Marketing of "Consumer Goods" and Services. Industrial Activity for production of "consumer goods" and services is the biggest destroyer of environment.

Millions of people are working in Sports Industry......Environment is destroyed to manufacture millions of tonnes of Sports Equipment......Millions of Trees have been cut down and billions of acres of fertile soil has been killed with Cement & Concrete to build millions of Stadiums.

Millions of people are working in Tourism Industry......Tourism is all about Travelling which promotes Transportation Industry that destroys Environment......Millions of kilometers of Road and Rail network cutting through Forests destroying Trees and Wildlife.....Millions of kilometers of Shipping Lanes torturing and killing Fish.....Millions of kilometers of Air Routes killing the Air with millions of tonnes of exhaust gases.

Millions of people are working in Entertainment Industry........Environment has been destroyed to construct millions of Buildings that are used for entertainment and to produce millions of tonnes of Electronic Equipment that provides entertainment.

Millions of people are working for "Military Industrial Complex" producing and selling billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world...... Environment is destroyed when weapons are produced and when they are used.

Millions of City People are engaged in other unnecessary work that destroys even more environment.

Food, clothing and shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans.

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been only a small fraction of 7 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

sushil_yadav wrote:We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.

Human beings are a curious species. Many people recognize the long-term consequences of economic activity but humans, as a species, evidently lack the self-regulation to restrain themselves when tempted with the luxuries of the industrialized world. I live in the USA and would be considered a radical environmentalist based on my minimalist standard of living, but I consume much more than the average person on earth. You posted that article, but presumably you are using a computer, which is contrary to what you posted.

Environmental problems have been identified. I guess the question is if you can find a way to work toward solutions. Part of that might be to examine the assumptions and values behind your posts and determine which parts of those can be argued objectively to the people who consume and produce the most. It is difficult to objectively identify how much personal sacrifice a person should make to avoid ecological problems, but there might be ways to influence or lead people to do what they already know that they should be doing.

rehoot wrote:Human beings are a curious species. Many people recognize the long-term consequences of economic activity but humans, as a species, evidently lack the self-regulation to restrain themselves when tempted with the luxuries of the industrialized world. I live in the USA and would be considered a radical environmentalist based on my minimalist standard of living, but I consume much more than the average person on earth.

rehoot,

Thanks for expressing your views on consumerism and the lack of foresight in human species which continues to ignore the devastating impact of consumerism on environment .....I want to add a few points on the cause of consumerism and the futility and absurdity of modern environmentalism.

Consumerism is directly proportional to Percentage of Urban Population.

This planet cannot sustain an Industrial / Urban Society......The problem is not Capitalism, The problem is Industrialization / Urbanization.......The solution is not Communism or Socialism, The solution is Non-Industrial / Non-Urban Society.

Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter at all........What matters is percentage of Urban Population......A Socialist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population...... A Communist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population.

Urban Population is responsible for consumerism.......Urban Population does not produce Food.....It produces thousands of Consumer Goods and Services.

Consumerism is directly proportional to Percentage of Urban Population.

Saving environment in Industrial Society is an impossibility......No Industrial Society can save environment.......Communist or Socialist Industrial Societies cannot be less destructive than Capitalist Industrial Societies.

There cannot be any sustainable Industrial Society........The fault does not lie in Capitalism.....The fault lies in Industrialization.....All Industrial Societies are the same.....All Industrial Societies are equally harmful, destructive and evil.

Destruction of environment is guaranteed in Industrial Society......The debate over Capitalism, Communism and Socialism in the context of Environmental Crisis is meaningless and absurd.

Industrialization , Urbanization and Consumerism go hand in hand......They happen together.

Today 50% of world population is Urban, living in cities...... 50% of world population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population living in Cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services........Urban population is not producing food, it is producing consumer goods and services.......Even if the entire world is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to bring about any change in consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population will remain the same and it will continue producing and marketing thousands of consumer goods and services.

In America 90 - 95% of population is Urban......That is why consumerism is so rampant in the US......Even if America is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to reduce consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population would still remain the same.

In Europe 80 - 90% of population is Urban.

In China and India consumerism has risen exponentially with the increase in percentage of Urban Population.

Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter.......What matters is Industrialization and Urbanization which results in Consumerism.

This planet cannot sustain Industrial Urban Population.......This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.

This planet can sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society where almost the entire population is engaged in "searching for food" / producing food......This planet cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population is producing thousands of consumer goods and services.

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Story of Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society.
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A Serial Killer with endless supply of ammunition goes on the rampage in the city.....The Police are informed.....They arrive on the scene.....They do not try to stop or capture the shooter.....They do not try to kill or incapacitate the shooter.....They allow him to continue shooting......They give him full liberty to move around all over the city.

The Police focus on the victims of shooting.....They take them to Hospitals and try to save them with the help of best Technology / Health Care.....The Government sets up thousands of Organizations to do research on how the Whites can be saved, How the Blacks can be saved, How the Asians can be saved, How the Young can be saved, How the Elderly can be saved.....The Government gives Billions of Dollars of Grant to "Think Tanks" and NGO's to find out how the victims can be saved.....People of the city engage in Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument to find a solution to the problem.

This is not the story of the Mass Shooter.....This is the story of Environmentalism in Industrial Society.

Environment is being destroyed by Industrial Activity........Environmental Activists and Organizations are trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity

One group is trying to save Forests......The second group is trying to save Rivers......The third group is trying to save Oceans......The fourth group is trying to make the Air clean......The fifth group is trying to save Tigers and Elephants......The sixth group is trying to save Whales and Dolphins.

Industrial Technology has destroyed environment........Industrial Society is trying to save environment by changing the Technology.

Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology........Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology.

Height of Insanity and Abnormality......This is like trying to save a victim of shooting not by stopping the shooting but by changing the gun.

People who are trying to save environment in Industrial Society without stopping all Industrial Activity deserve the Nobel Prize for Lunacy.

Why don't people realize the futility and absurdity of their efforts......It is impossible to save animals, trees, air, water and land without stopping all Industrial Activity.

What is the point in saving a few Dogs, Cats, Whales, Tigers and Elephants when Industrial Society is killing billions of animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of Wild Animals in Forests by destroying Forests with Industrial Activities like Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks and ever expanding Towns and Cities.......Industrial Society is also killing billions of fish in the oceans with Industrial Fishing and through discharge of billions of tonnes of Industrial Waste into oceans which has made them poisonous, acidic, warmer and created oxygen-deprived dead zones in the oceans.

It is impossible to save Air, water and Land without stopping all Industrial Activity because Industrial Activity is killing them with trillions of tonnes of Metal waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.......Industrial Activity produces trillions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Waste and there are only three places on earth where all this waste can go....Air, water and Soil.....There is no fourth place on earth where this waste can go...... It is impossible for Rivers, Oceans, Atmosphere and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society......Not an Industrial Society.

All Environmentalism is Pseudo-Environmentalism in Industrial Society.......It is impossible to save environment in an Industrial Society.

People who pretend they are saving environment in Industrial Society are even more insane, abnormal and criminal than people who are destroying the environment.

It is impossible to save environment in Industrial Society because Industrialization itself is the cause of environmental destruction.........In a non-industrial society environmentalism was not even needed.......In the absence of Industrial Activity environment got saved automatically because only limited destruction of environment was possible without Industrial Machines.

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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ..

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

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What is the Result of 50 years of Environmentalism/ Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society???

Industrial Society has been killing millions of times more Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land than Pre-Industrial Society every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing millions of acres of Forests with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Billions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing millions of Wild Animals by destroying the Forests where they live with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Air, Water and Soil with billions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste every day for several decades.....Industrial Society has been killing Rivers, Oceans, Air/ Atmosphere and Soil/ Land with Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Millions of Acres of Fertile Soil with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt every day for several decades.

All this Killing / Destruction was absent in Pre-Industrial Society without any Environmentalism.

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All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.

No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.

How can environment ever be saved in Industrial Society when Industrial Activity itself is the cause of environmental destruction....Environment can only be saved in a Non-Industrial Society.

Industrial Society has created hundreds of unnecessary / futile occupations to solve the problems created by Industrialization.....Environmental Activism is one of them.....If thousands of organizations and millions of activists are trying to save environment in Industrial Society it does not mean that environment is getting saved…..There have been three human societies on earth .....Hunter_Gatherer, Agrarian and Industrial.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society there was no Urban Population, entire population was engaged in searching for food.....In Agrarian Society less than 2% of population was Urban, Most of the population was engaged in producing food.....In Industrial Society 50% of world population is producing food for entire population , the remaining 50% population is Urban which has created hundreds of unnecessary occupations to keep itself occupied..... People would go crazy without work…. Environmentalism / Environmental Activism is one such profession [occupation]......[Other unnecessary and destructive professions in Industrial Society include Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services, Jobs in Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex and several other jobs]....No Environmentalism was needed in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Societies because in the absence of Industrial Activity only limited destruction of environment was possible, so environment got saved automatically.

If billions of pages of environmental discussion is taking place in Industrial Society it does not mean that environment is getting saved......Endless Discussion, Debate and Argument is a Disease and Insanity of Industrial Society that invented the Printing Press, Radio, Television and Internet.....Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through discussion.....They didn't even have a language for discussion…..Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument is another harmful waste of Industrial Society just like Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.

All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.

No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.

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The one and only cause of environmental destruction is Industrialization.

Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are consequences / by-products of Industrialization.

Without Industrialization there would be no overpopulation and no overconsumerism.

Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen together.......Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen at the same time.

It is Industrialization that has led to a population of 7 billion.....Not overbreeding.

The entire world was overbreeding before Industrialization.....The entire world is underbreeding after Industrialization.

There used to be 5 - 15 children per family all over the world before Industrialization and yet world population reached only 1 billion till 1800 AD......After Industrialization the family size reduced drastically, most families are now having 1 - 4 children and yet world population jumped from 1 billion to 7 billion in just about 200 years.

If Industrialization had not happened world population would be less than 2 billion today.

India and China have large populations today because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions.....What was the population of Europe and America 2000 years ago????.....Was it comparable with the population of India and China???? .....And once again, In the absence of Industrialization India and China would not be having large populations today.

If Industrialization had not happened, High death rate would have kept population of the world under control....Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control.....Feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control....Shortage of food and water would have kept population under control.....Harsh Climatic Conditions would have kept population under control - People would not have been able to live in regions that are too hot or too cold.

If Industrialization had not happened this planet would have been in very good condition today.....There would be no overpopulation, no overconsumerism and only limited urbanization.

A Non-Industrial Society would have destroyed some ecosystems on the land [Forests] but Marine Ecology [Oceans] would have been almost 100% safe today......Forest Cover would be much greater than what it is now....Millions of species on the land and in the sea would not have been decimated and would be thriving with very healthy populations......This planet would be free of Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The Oceans wouldn't have become Acidic, Warmer and Oxygen Deprived because of Industrial Waste.

It is consumerism that destroys environment, Not population.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment [compared to an Industrial Society of 7 billion]...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

[By the way, A Hunter_Gatherer Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion......An Agrarian Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion]

Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.

Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.

When we talk about population we should take into account population of all animal species on earth, not just human population.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species.... The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species......There was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....The combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.

The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.

The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.

This planet can only sustain a Non-Industrial Society.

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If Urban Society stops all its supplies to Villages......Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment, Villagers will survive forever.

If Villages stop all their supplies to Cities......Food Grains and Vegetables, Urban Population will die within a month.

[ Villagers need Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment to produce food for the Urban Population , They would not need these things to produce food for themselves]

Urban Population is engaged in Unnecessary Work, Meaningless Work, Futile Work and Destructive Work which has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth.

For millions of years "Searching For Food" / "Producing Food" were the primary occupations of almost the entire human population in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Society.

There is Zero chance of saving the little environment that is left without fixing the problem of "Urban Population".

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Animal Species had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Hunter_Gatherer Society had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Agrarian Society had less than Two Percent Urban Population.......All these societies sustained for millions of years collectively.

The current Industrial Society which has 50% Urban Population worldwide has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years after Industrial Revolution.......Industrial Activity has been promoted by Urban Population......Industrial Activity has been promoted by people who do not produce food.

This planet can sustain Animal Species.....It can sustain Hunter_Gatherer Human Society......It can sustain Agrarian Human Society......It cannot sustain Industrial Human Society.

This planet can only sustain food producing societies where almost the entire population is engaged in food production......It cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of world population is growing food for entire population and the remaining 50% living in cities is promoting Industrial Activity.

Animals saved environment for millions of years because they destroyed it only for food.....Hunter_Gatherer Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food.....Agrarian Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems because it destroyed environment for "Thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

In the Animal Kingdom, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society almost the entire population was engaged in "Searching for Food" / "Growing Food".

It is the Urban Population that is engaged in and promoting Industrial Activity ......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network, Air Routes and Shipping Lanes…..They all destroy environment......All Industrial Activity must be stopped.

Food, clothing and shelter......These are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans......The only way to save the remaining environment is by reorganizing the entire population so that food production remains the only primary activity just like it was for millions of years before Industrialization.

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Industrial Society has existed for barely 250 years which comes to almost Zero Percent of Total Human Existence on earth....Humans have spent more than 99.99% of their time on earth in Non-Industrial Societies [Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian].....Industrial Society is an Anomaly....Only Non-Industrial Societies are sustainable.

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been less than 2 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be primarily limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

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When there was still time to save environment a whole century was wasted in the futile debate over Capitalism, Socialism and Communism.

Trying to save environment after 250 years of relentless Industrial Activity is like trying to revive a dead man.....There is hardly any environment left to save.

Industrial Activity destroys environment.....Where there is Industrial Activity there is environmental destruction.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism doesn't matter at all.

Monsanto is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Nuclear Power Plants are not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Mining Industry is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Logging Industry is not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.

Construction Industry is not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.

Transportation Industry is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Tar Sands and Hydraulic Fracking are not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.

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A person is being shot 100 times......Some people are supposed to save the victim.....They do nothing till 99 bullets have hit the victim.....When the last bullet is about to be fired they rush to save the victim, who is already dead by then.

Industrial Activity has been destroying Biodiversity and Ecosystems for 250 years.....Industrial Society should not have been started in the first place.....Once it came into existence its harmful impact on environment should have alerted people and they should have tried to stop Industrial Activity in the early stages.....If people had tried to stop Industrial Activity 50 years or even 100 years after it began, environment could have been saved because most of the environmental destruction has taken place in the last 50 - 100 years when the rate of Industrialization and Consumerism rose exponentially.....Trying to save environment after 250 years of Industrial Activity is like trying to revive a dead man.....There is hardly any environment left to save.

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When a mass shooter kills 20 American kids the world is outraged.

When millions of baby seals are clubbed to death the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of animals in Slaughter Houses the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of wild animals by destroying forests with Industrial Activity the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land with billions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of acres of fertile soil that provides food to millions of species with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills ecosystems that are home to millions of species it is called Progress, Growth, Development.

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Who is not a killer in Industrial Society?????

Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.

Industrial Society has killed billions of farm animals in Slaughter Houses and billions of wild animals in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of animals.

Industrial Society has killed billions of Trees in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of Trees.

Industrial Activity has produced billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous Industrial Waste.....This waste has polluted and poisoned air, water and soil....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita waste which is a measure of per capita killing of air, water and soil.

Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.

Mass shooters are not the only insane people in this society.....The entire Industrial Society is insane.

The entire Industrial Society is insane, abnormal and criminal.

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Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.

This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain Hunter_Gatherer Society or Agrarian Society.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society....It cannot sustain an Urban Society that produces thousands of consumer goods and services instead of food.

An Industrial Society will always be cruel to millions of other species and to itself.

A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.

After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not even exist.

Welfare of humans and millions of other species is only possible in a non-industrial society.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth.

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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

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Five Elephants were run over by a train in the state of Orissa in India yesterday.

One of them was a female in advanced stage of pregnancy whose foetus came out as the train hit the mother.

The world will celebrate one more New Year's Eve today......After torturing, slaughtering and decimating millions of species this world will celebrate yet another New Year today.
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After destroying planet Earth.....After destroying most of the biodiversity and ecosystems, Industrial Society should be in Mourning but it wants to Celebrate instead.

It wants to Celebrate Diwali, Christmas, New Year and Hundreds of other Festivals.

If Industrial Society had any shame there would have been no Celebrations in the past , no celebrations for the next thousands of years.....only Mourning.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species, destroyed Forests, poisoned Rivers, Oceans, Soil and Sky with Billions of Tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste.

Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.

Celebrate!!!....Celebrate!!!....Celebrate!!!

Celebrate Diwali, Christmas, New Year and Hundreds of other Festivals!!!!.....Go Shopping.....Spend Money.....Buy Gifts....Buy thousands of consumer goods and services.....Promote and Accelerate Industrial Activity which will kill even more Biodiversity and Ecosystems.

And then wait for next year to celebrate the death of nature once more.
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Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.

This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain Hunter_Gatherer Society or Agrarian Society.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society....It cannot sustain an Urban Society that produces thousands of consumer goods and services instead of food.
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More than 99.9% destruction of this planet has already happened.....Only the end of humans is yet to happen.

Most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems have already been destroyed.

Species are not lost when they become extinct....Species are lost when they get decimated....Species were lost when their populations dropped from billions and millions before industrialization to thousands and hundreds after industrialization.

There are(were) millions of species in this world....Most of them have already been decimated because Industrial Activity has destroyed most of the forests....Millions of Plant and Animal species have been decimated by Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks, Ports and Airports..

If we calculate the decline in populations of millions of species after industrialization the combined loss will come to more than 99.9%.

Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land have been polluted, poisoned and killed by trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The entire planet has become a Toxic Dump.....All Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste that has been produced by Industrial Society in 250 years after Industrial Revolution has accumulated on earth....It has not gone out of earth.

Oceans have turned acidic and warmer and there are oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans....Fish in the oceans have been decimated by Industrial Fishing.

Billions of acres of fertile soil that was the source of food to millions of species has been killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt.

A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.

After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not exist...It is only a matter of a few years now.
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Sushil, you will love this video:

http://vimeo.com/56093731

The ending is unrealistic, of course. The aliens would just absorb the planet's resources for their own agenda.

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Hedonic Treader,

Thanks for giving the link to the video....I will visit the site soon.
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Cities are the Graveyards of Nature, Urban Dwellers the Executioners.

Environment has been destroyed by Urban Population, Urban Work and Urban Education.

All Industrial Activity that is destroying environment is being run by Urban Population and Urban Education.

Industrial Activity has destroyed so much environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

Industrial Activity for production of thousands of consumer goods and services must stop immediately....Millions of other species get only food from earth....The maximum that man can/ should get is food, clothing and shelter....Urban Dwellers have to either transform into full time food producers or they have to stop working.

Billions of animals are being slaughtered in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day.....Billions of fish are being killed by Industrial Fishing every day....Millions of acres of Forests are being destroyed by Industrial Activity every day....Millions of wild animals in forests are being killed by Industrial Activity every day.....Millions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste is being added to environment every day....Millions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste and eWaste are being added to environment every day.... Millions of acres of Fertile Soil is being killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt every day....Nuclear Industry has produced millions of tonnes of Nuclear Waste which will keep contaminating the planet with hazardous radioactivity for the next thousands of years.

Progress, Growth, Development.

This is terminology for all unnecessary and destructive work being done by Urban Population.

Growth Rate - Economy Rate - GDP.

These are figures for all unnecessary and destructive work being done by Urban Population.

If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.

If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.

If Urban Society stops all its supplies to Villages......electricity, oil, machinery, equipment and consumer goods, Villagers will survive forever.

If Villages stop all their supplies to Cities......Food Grains and Vegetables, Urban Population will die within a month.

[ Villagers need Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment to produce food for the Urban Population , They would not need these things to produce food for themselves]

Urban Work is not only dispensable it is highly injurious to planet earth.

Two centuries of Urban Work after industrialization has destroyed most of the biodiversity and ecosystems on earth.

Urban Work must stop immediately.

Cities, Urban Dwellers, Urban Work and Urban Education are a curse on this planet.

Urban Dwellers are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.

Urban Dwellers are serial killers of nature....Serial Killers of Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land.

If consumer goods are eliminated from cities people will not die....If food and water are eliminated from cities people will die.

*Growth Rate* - *Economy Rate* - *GDP*
These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".

Urban Population is a curse on this planet....Urban Dwellers are a curse on this planet.

Urban Population has destroyed necessary things [Animals, trees, Air, Water and Land] for making unnecessary things [Consumer Goods and Services]

Food, clothing and shelter are necessities, Not thousands of consumer goods and services.

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For millions of years "Searching For Food" / "Producing Food" were the primary occupations of almost the entire human population in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Society.

There is Zero chance of saving the little environment that is left on earth without fixing the problem of "Urban Population".

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All Urban Dwellers are Eco Killers.....Adults as well as Children.

Urban Adults are already destroying environment by running Industrial Activity for production and marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services......Children are being groomed to do the same in future through Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education.

School and University Education has destroyed environment....All Industrial Activity is being run by Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education.

Everything in Cities is destructive in nature......Urban Dwellers, Urban Work, Urban Education.....Everything.

Environment has been destroyed by Urban Dwellers, Urban Work and Urban Education.

The source / cause of all Industrial Activity is Urban Population, Urban Work and Education.

**Urban population trying to save environment is like Petrol trying to extinguish a fire.**

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Rural Population of this world is doing work.....Urban Population of this world is doing destructive work.

Rural Population is producing food......Urban Population is producing thousands of consumer goods and services.

Since Urban Population is not producing food, it has created thousands of unnecessary professions to keep itself occupied [People would go crazy without work]....Destructive works and professions of Urban Dwellers include Production of consumer goods and services, Marketing of consumer goods and services, Jobs in Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex, All kinds of unnecessary research and jobs in hundreds of other fields.

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Why should rest of the world suffer for the decadent and destructive lifestyle of Urban Dwellers????

Why should Forests be destroyed for the Industrial Projects of Urban Dwellers????

Why should Animals and Trees die for the Industrial Projects of Urban Dwellers????

Why should Villages and Tribal Land be destroyed for the Industrial Projects of Urban Dwellers????

Why should Rivers, Lakes and Oceans be destroyed for the Industrial Projects of Urban Dwellers????

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A fraction of world population producing food for entire population....This is the root cause of all environmental destruction.

Rural Population producing food for Urban Population....This is the root cause of all environmental destruction.

Urban Population is not producing food, It is doing *Extra* Work which is causing *Extra* Destruction of environment.....Urban Population is producing thousands of consumer goods and services which has led to *Exponential* Extra Destruction of environment.

All Industrial Activity that is destroying environment is being run and promoted by Urban Population of the world.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth.

This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.

Hunter_Gatherer Society was sustainable.....Agrarian Society was sustainable.....The question of Industrial Society being sustainable doesn't arise.

We cannot save environment by destroying more of it.....We cannot save environment by destroying it for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
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Animal Species had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Hunter_Gatherer Society had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Agrarian Society had less than Two Percent Urban Population.......All these societies sustained for millions of years collectively.

The current Industrial Society which has 50% Urban Population worldwide has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years after Industrial Revolution.......Industrial Activity has been promoted by Urban Population......Industrial Activity has been promoted by people who do not produce food.

This planet can sustain Animal Species.....It can sustain Hunter_Gatherer Human Society......It can sustain Agrarian Human Society......It cannot sustain Industrial Human Society.

This planet can only sustain food producing societies where almost the entire population is engaged in food production......It cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of world population is growing food for entire population and the remaining 50% living in cities is promoting Industrial Activity.

Animals saved environment for millions of years because they destroyed it only for food.....Hunter_Gatherer Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food.....Agrarian Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems because it destroyed environment for "Thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

In the Animal Kingdom, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society almost the entire population was engaged in "Searching for Food" / "Growing Food".

It is the Urban Population that is engaged in and promoting all kinds of Industrial Activity ......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network, Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.

Food, clothing and shelter......These are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans......The only way to save the remaining environment is by reorganizing the entire population so that food production remains the only primary activity just like it was for millions of years before Industrialization.

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Industrial Society has existed for barely 250 years which comes to almost Zero Percent of Total Human Existence on earth....In fact Industrial Society has existed for only about 100 years....Although Industrial Revolution started 250 years ago most of the world became heavily industrialized only in the last 100 years....100 years of Industrial Activity has destroyed this planet.....100 years of Industrial Activity has destroyed what was not destroyed in millions of years on earth.

Humans have spent more than 99.99% of their time on earth in Non-Industrial Societies [Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian].....Industrial Society is an Anomaly....Only Non-Industrial Societies are sustainable on earth.

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A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been less than 2 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be primarily limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.

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The most dangerous and destructive industry in this world is Education Industry.

Education Industry is the source of all Industrial Activity that has destroyed environment....All other industries are by products of Education Industry.

Universities and Colleges are producing millions of Scientists, Engineers, Economists, MBA's, Business and Finance Graduates who are running and promoting all Industrial Activity in this world.

Education Industry is the Mother of all Industries.

Education Industry is the Mother of all Environmental Destruction.

All Industrial Activity that is destroying environment is being run by Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education.

Education has destroyed environment.

School and University Education has destroyed environment.

Educated People are the biggest Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.

Schools and Universities must be closed down.....Immediately!!!

Billions of animals are being slaughtered in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day because of Education.....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for Industrial Farming of animals, Industrial Slaughter Houses, Refrigeration/ Transportation Industry which transports live and dead animals all over the world and Marketing Industry which sells meat.

Billions of fish are being killed by Industrial Fishing every day because of Education.....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for Industrial Ships which catch fish, Refrigeration/ Transportation Industry which transports fish all over the world and Marketing Industry which sells fish.

Millions of acres of Forests are being destroyed by Industrial Activity every day because of Education.....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Marketing Industry, Construction Industry, Transportation Industry, Oil Drilling and Refining Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road networks which are destroying forests moment by moment.

Millions of wild animals in forests are being killed by Industrial Activity every day because of Education....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for the decimation of wild animals.

Millions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste is being added to environment every day because of Education.....Millions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste and eWaste are being added to environment every day because of Education.....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for the poisoning of Rivers, Oceans, Land and Sky/ Atmosphere.

Millions of acres of Fertile Soil is being killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt every day because of Education....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for destruction of fertile soil by Construction Industry.

Education is responsible for millions of tonnes of Nuclear Waste produced by Nuclear Industry which will keep contaminating the planet with hazardous radioactivity for the next thousands of years.....This radioactivity will remain a potential source of cancer, death, multiple organ failures, physical and mental deformities for thousands of years....Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education is responsible for Radioactivity produced by Nuclear Industry.

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Animal Species searched for Food

Hunter_Gatherer Society searched for Food

Agrarian Society produced Food

Rural Industrial Society is producing Food

Urban Industrial Society is producing Thousands of Consumer Goods and Services.

Urban Industrial Society is the Anomaly.
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The work of Urban Industrial Society is Extra, Unnecessary and Destructive.

Urban Work has destroyed environment.....Urban Work must stop immediately.

Production of Industrial Consumer Goods must stop immediately.

If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.

If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.

That is the worth of Urban Work in this world.

Environment has been destroyed by Urban Population, Urban Work and Urban Education.

All Industrial Activity that is destroying environment is being run by Urban Population and Urban Education.

If Urban Society stops all its supplies to Villages......electricity, oil, machinery, equipment and consumer goods, Villagers will survive forever.

If Villages stop all their supplies to Cities......Food Grains and Vegetables, Urban Population will die within a month.

[ Villagers need Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment to produce food for the Urban Population , They would not need these things to produce food for themselves]

Industrial Activity for production of thousands of consumer goods and services must stop immediately....Millions of other species get only food from earth....The maximum that man can/ should get is food, clothing and shelter.

This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" societies....For millions of years "searching for food"/ "producing food" was the primary occupation on earth.

The whole society needs to be reorganized...Urban Dwellers have to be relocated in Rural Areas....Urban Dwellers have to either transform into full time food producers or they have to stop working in order to save the remaining environment from destructive Urban Work....They can be given food for free in order to save the remaining environment from destructive Urban Work.

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The recent Floods and Land Slides in Uttarakhand in India are more of an Industrial Disaster than a Natural Disaster.

This catastrophe is a consequence of World Bank funded Dam Industry.....Hundreds of Dams and Hydro Electric Projects are being constructed in the fragile mountain range.

This calamity is a consequence of unchecked activities of Construction Industry, Logging Industry, Mining Industry and Tourism Industry.

**Development is Destruction.....Development is Destruction.**

**Growth Rate** - **Economy Rate** - **GDP**....These are figures of Ecocide....These are figures of "Crimes against Nature"....These are figures of "Destruction of Ecosystems".....These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".

Politicians who promote Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.

Economists who promote Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.

IMF and World Bank which promote Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.

Rating Agencies which promote Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.

Industrialists who promote Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.

All people and Institutions that promote Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.
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Industrial Nations are used to threatening their adversaries with Military Might and Nuclear Weapons.

How are they going to deal with Climate which is getting more and more extreme day by day???

Are they going to nuke Hurricanes and Tornadoes too???

Are they going to nuke Droughts and Floods too???

The west used to think droughts and floods are problems of Asia, Africa and poor countries of the world....They are now occurring in the west too.

The day is not far when Agriculture will collapse worldwide due to extreme and irregular weather.

What is man going to eat???.....He has already decimated fish in the oceans.
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Progress, Growth, Development.....This is terminology for all unnecessary and destructive work being done by Urban Population.

Growth Rate - Economy Rate - GDP......These are figures for all unnecessary and destructive work being done by Urban Population.

If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.

If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.

That is the worth of Urban Work, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP in this world.
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The planet is dying.....It is gasping for last breath.

Radical Actions are needed.

Industrial Activity for production of thousands of consumer goods and services must stop immediately.

Cities are the Graveyards of Nature, Urban Dwellers the Executioners.
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Stop Education.....Close Down Universities.

Stop Urban Work.....Close Down the Cities.

Do it Now.

A few years later would be too late.
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Please stop posting meaningless one liners which are neither replies nor do they add anything to the topic under discussion.

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Hi Sushi,
Please consider answering Elijah's question:

What exactly is wrong with destroying nature?

Many on this forum disagree that nature is worth preserving. I in particular am especially interested in your opinion, because I think the destruction of nature could be, circumstances permitting, the sole moral deed one can do.

It would also help discussion if you could explain why you think the planet is "gasping for its last breath". That is, explain how it is possible to kill the earth, once and for all, and explain why you think we're at the point of no return where the earth cannot be healed. Please, do not post your own opinion. It is confusing. Rather, supply us with primary and secondary sources: papers and articles about climate, about resource depletion, irreversible environmental degredation, ecosystem homeostasis and disruption, the evisceration of the ozone by industrial CFCs, the draining of non-renewable aquifers, etc. Perhaps, if you have written a text elsewhere, you can refer us to that. If you have not, please try to answer here as concisely as you can. It would help us a lot.

I look forward to your brief and well-evidenced reply.