I can't recall which negative utilitarian it was who introduced me to one of the worst videos I've seen. A deer, getting torn apart by a leopard, or a great cat of some sort. If you're the sort of person who has a lot of sympathy for the victims of predation, watching predation is a harrowing experience. Whether showing this sort of footage, which is edited out of any ordinary nature documentary, but is a distinct part of nature, is a motivator for concern for animals, or the opposite, is something that I really have no idea about. Based on youtube comments, it seems that about half of people come to the conclusion that animal suffering is not always bad, because it happens in nature, a quarter of people come to the conclusion that some of what happens in nature is terrible, and a quarter of people leave confused.

Wild animal suffering is terrible. Utilitarianism is unequivocal on that. Whether the promotion of concern for wild animals is cost-effective as at 2011 is an open question.

I don't have the original video, but here's what I just saw, footage of rats suffering to feed a pet snapping turtle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GydyA_cVJNA

i cant view it until i make an account, which i will do, but oh god i dunno if i want to...

RyanCarey wrote:I can't recall which negative utilitarian it was who introduced me to one of the worst videos I've seen. A deer, getting torn apart by a leopard, or a great cat of some sort.

I think it was a Komodo dragon, actually (see "Komodo dragon eating deer while still alive" here).

RyanCarey wrote:Based on youtube comments, it seems that about half of people come to the conclusion that animal suffering is not always bad, because it happens in nature, a quarter of people come to the conclusion that some of what happens in nature is terrible, and a quarter of people leave confused.

Yeah, I don't know whether such videos are useful in the absence of any commentary. In fact, throughout my childhood, I watched tons of nature programs, but I never really thought about animal suffering as even bad until the end of high school, when I found Peter Singer and such. Previously, I think I had watched such footage of predation with the same attitude as people watch shoot-em-up movies, violent video games, or gladiator fights.

So I think it's crucial that depictions of cruelty in nature be accompanied by statements that "this isn't okay and can be reduced." Otherwise, as you say, many people will leave confused, and many more will decide to accept nature's cruelty in order to assuage cognitive dissonance. People's attitudes toward abstract issues like this are keenly sensitive to social norms (just look at how many weird, recondite practices come out of religions!), so we should make sure to "set the example" here.

Is this the equivalent for insect suffering?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3nuuHBd4Qk

RyanCarey wrote:Is this the equivalent for insect suffering?

Absolutely awful to watch.