Sentience and clock speed

Whether it's pushpin, poetry or neither, you can discuss it here.

Sentience and clock speed

Postby Brian Tomasik on 2011-10-05T09:29:00

In "The Ethics of Artificial Intelligence," Bostrom and Yudkowsky discuss the relevance of subjective rate of time to how we should treat a sentient mind (pp. 11-12):
Suppose that an upload could be sentient.  If we run the upload program on a faster computer, this will cause the upload, if it is connected to an input device such as a video camera, to perceive the external world as if it had been slowed down.  For example, if the upload is running a thousand times faster than the original brain, then the external world will appear to the upload as if it were slowed down by a factor of thousand.  Somebody drops a physical coffee mug:  The upload observes the mug slowly falling to the ground while the upload finishes reading the morning newspaper and sends off a few emails.  One second of objective time corresponds to 17 minutes of subjective time.  Objective and subjective duration can thus diverge.

Subjective time is not the same as a subject’s estimate or perception of how fast time flows.  Human beings are often mistaken about the flow of time.  We may believe that it is one o’clock when it is in fact a quarter past two; or a stimulant drug might cause our thoughts to race, making it seem as though more subjective time has lapsed than is actually the case.  These mundane cases involve a distorted time perception rather than a shift in the rate of subjective time.  Even in a cocaine‐addled brain, there is probably not a significant change in the speed of basic neurological computations; more likely, the drug is causing such a brain to flicker more rapidly from one thought to another, making it spend less subjective time thinking each of a greater number of distinct thoughts.

The variability of the subjective rate of time is an exotic property of artificial minds that raises novel ethical issues.  For example, in cases where the duration of an experience is ethically relevant, should duration be measured in objective or subjective time?  If an upload has committed a crime and is sentenced to four years in prison, should this be four objective years—which might correspond to many millennia of subjective time—or should it be four subjective years, which might be over in a couple of days of objective time?  If a fast AI and a human are in pain, is it more urgent to alleviate the AI’s pain, on grounds that it experiences a greater subjective duration of pain for each sidereal second that palliation is delayed? 


The article "How fast is the brain?" has a very rough estimation of clock speed in humans.

I'm curious whether the temporal rate of emotion varies not just between AIs and humans but also among animal species. In "Of Mice and Elephants: A Matter of Scale" George Johnson explains:
As animals get bigger, from tiny shrew to huge blue whale, pulse rates slow down and life spans stretch out longer, conspiring so that the number of heartbeats during an average stay on Earth tends to be roughly the same, around a billion. A mouse just uses them up more quickly than an elephant.

Mysteriously, these and a large variety of other phenomena change with body size according to a precise mathematical principle called quarter-power scaling. A cat, 100 times more massive than a mouse, lives about 100 to the one-quarter power, or about three times, longer. (To calculate this number take the square root of 100, which is 10 and then take the square root of 10, which is 3.2.) Heartbeat scales to mass to the minus one-quarter power. The cat's heart thus beats a third as fast as a mouse's.

My guess is that heartbeat speed is not equivalent to subjective clock speed. However, maybe this should slightly increase our expectation for the subjective rate of experience of small mammals relative to large ones.

------

Update from 11 Feb. 2013:

It appears that the firing rate of neurons does vary by species, because firing rates are constrained by thermodynamic properties of brains. In "Thermodynamic constraints on neural dimensions, firing rates,
brain temperature and size
," Jan Karbowski presents a theoretical model according to which firing rates are slower in larger mammals. Using empirical cerebral glucose utilization rates, he calculates theoretical firing rates in Table 2 (p. 56):

Theoretical average firing rate by species
  • Mouse = 6.18 Hz
  • Rat = 5.03 Hz
  • Rabbit = 4.59 Hz
  • Cat = 4.47 Hz
  • Macaque = 2.38 Hz
  • Baboon = 2.33 Hz
  • Human = 1.68 Hz
He adds, "estimated in such a way average firing rates scale with gray matter volume with an exponent of
−0.15 (Fig. 5C), implying that average activity in larger brains is slower than in smaller brains." I think this -0.15 exponent may have some relation to the same number in his 2007 article, "Global and regional brain metabolic scaling and its functional consequences"?

Caveats:
  • It seems these estimates are only based on a theory for how firing rates are determined by glucose utilization. It would be great to find empirical estimates of firing rates, because they are directly measurable.
  • These numbers are only for mammals. Would exothermic species have different patterns? For example, it seems perhaps implausible to suggest that firing rates for a grasshopper should be much bigger than for a mouse, because the grasshopper's overall metabolism is different.
  • The effect size isn't huge between species. Assuming we would use a linear weighting by average firing rate in welfare calculations, a mouse would only get 3.7 times the weight of a human. If the differences are indeed this small across species, then maybe clock speed isn't a high priority in the calculations.
  • Is "average neural firing rate" even a good proxy for "perceived rate of subjective experience"??

---

Update from 16 Feb. 2013:

Jonatas Müller and David Pearce left comments when I shared this on my Facebook timeline.
User avatar
Brian Tomasik
 
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:10 am
Location: USA

Re: Sentience and clock speed

Postby Jesper Östman on 2011-10-05T14:25:00

Interesting! One ought to check the claim about neuron-speed.

Jesper Östman
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:23 am

Re: Sentience and clock speed

Postby DanielLC on 2011-10-06T03:45:00

I've made an argument to this effect about sentience being on a sliding scale.

I think it's a good idea to mention special relativity. What if the AI is running faster than the human from one point of reference, but slower from another? If you assume subjective time is what matters, the totals come out the same. If you assume "objective" time matters, than the total depends on the point of reference.

Also, if clock speed does matter, that means that having more computations in series matters. What about in parallel? Would a brain with twice as many neurons that fire just as often generate twice as much utility? I think it would.
Consequentialism: The belief that doing the right thing makes the world a better place.

DanielLC
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: Sentience and clock speed

Postby Brian Tomasik on 2011-10-08T15:55:00

DanielLC wrote:What if the AI is running faster than the human from one point of reference, but slower from another? If you assume subjective time is what matters, the totals come out the same. If you assume "objective" time matters, than the total depends on the point of reference.

If I understand correctly, "AI" verses "human" is orthogonal to special relativity. We could just ask whether a human in one point of reference matters less if the human is running slowly relative to another reference frame. I think it's clear that only subjective time matters here. Time is only relevant insofar as it describes what your brain can do in that time. If you're running slower, your brain can't do as much.

DanielLC wrote:Also, if clock speed does matter, that means that having more computations in series matters. What about in parallel? Would a brain with twice as many neurons that fire just as often generate twice as much utility?

We've discussed many times my position that what matters is the portion of the brain's computations that produce subjective awareness of one's own emotional states -- the ability to feel them as good or bad. Presumably that process occupies a small subset of all neural processing. So extra parallel computation does count, but only if it enhances these conscious feelings. Doubling unconscious brain systems alone does not "double your pleasure, double your fun," so to speak.
User avatar
Brian Tomasik
 
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:10 am
Location: USA

Re: Sentience and clock speed

Postby Pablo Stafforini on 2012-03-03T03:16:00

Suppose that an upload could be sentient. If we run the upload program on a faster computer, this will cause the upload, if it is connected to an input device such as a video camera, to perceive the external world as if it had been slowed down. For example, if the upload is running a thousand times faster than the original brain, then the external world will appear to the upload as if it were slowed down by a factor of thousand. Somebody drops a physical coffee mug: The upload observes the mug slowly falling to the ground while the upload finishes reading the morning newspaper and sends off a few emails. One second of objective time corresponds to 17 minutes of subjective time. Objective and subjective duration can thus diverge.

As far as I can see, what ultimately matters for hedonistic utilitarians is only the computation implemented, and not the speed of implementation. The same program may be run on computers of varying speeds and this would change the subjective duration of the associated experience. However, the program itself wouldn't change, and as a consequence the quantity of pain contained in the experience would remain the same. There would only be a difference in density of experience. What do others think?

(Edited for clarity.)
"‘Méchanique Sociale’ may one day take her place along with ‘Mécanique Celeste’, throned each upon the double-sided height of one maximum principle, the supreme pinnacle of moral as of physical science." -- Francis Ysidro Edgeworth
User avatar
Pablo Stafforini
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:07 am
Location: Oxford

Re: Sentience and clock speed

Postby Brian Tomasik on 2012-03-03T05:24:00

Yeah, Pablo, I think that's the right intuition. If the happiness algorithm takes 20 steps, then running those 20 steps matters equally regardless of how quickly they're run.
User avatar
Brian Tomasik
 
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:10 am
Location: USA

Re: Sentience and clock speed

Postby RyanCarey on 2012-03-03T16:49:00

Agreed.
You can read my personal blog here: CareyRyan.com
User avatar
RyanCarey
 
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:01 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Sentience and clock speed

Postby Brian Tomasik on 2013-02-18T00:40:00

I tried to search for more discussion of whether brains have something analogous to the clock signal of a computer. I didn't find a lot of results, and for those I did find, I couldn't assess whether they had relevance to this question. Following is one example.

"No Clock Signal in the Discharge of Neurons in the Deep Cerebellar Nuclei":
We examined the spike activity of deep cerebellar nuclear cells recorded from awake, behaving monkeys to determine if there was a tendency for periodic discharge at or near 10 Hz. Data were obtained from four Rhesus monkeys trained to perform either targeted flexions and extensions of the wrist in relation to a visual cue (2 monkeys) or instrumented digit movements and natural reaches (2 monkeys). We determined the interspike intervals of 274 isolated cells. [...] Our failure to observe a clocklike timing signal in awake, behaving animals in either the Purkinje cell complex spike or the deep nuclear cell discharge argues against a popular idea that the inferior olive may act through the cerebellum as a motor clock.


For more intuition on what a clock signal does, I found this explanation helpful:
Digital circuits always have some input and generate digital outputs accordingly. Some digital circuits are not clocked, meaning that the input applied to the circuit flows through digital gates without any timing or storage and generates the output. It only takes a time equal to the propagation delay time to reach the output.

On the other hand most of the digital circuits that do more complex processing on the digital inputs such as controllers, processors or state machines are timed and the signal can't just go through. In these circuits a clock with a fixed frequency is used for timing. A clock plays very important role as it is used to open and close digital paths, allow or stop a process and in general provide timing for the circuit. You can compare a clock with the traffic lights.

It certainly seems plausible that brains might benefit from a similar mechanism, but I don't know whether they actually do.
User avatar
Brian Tomasik
 
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:10 am
Location: USA


Re: Sentience and clock speed

Postby Brian Tomasik on 2013-02-18T05:04:00

Elijah wrote:It's been five years since i read it, but this notion really stuck with me.

Oh? I guess that means you read it just yesterday. (Your clock speed is 2000 times faster than normal.)
User avatar
Brian Tomasik
 
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:10 am
Location: USA


Return to General discussion