This is a Good Site to Find!

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This is a Good Site to Find!

Postby CosmicPariah on 2012-04-12T00:41:00

Hi, my name is Max and I'm new here. I've been a utilitarian since for 5 years now (since I was 16) and it being a utilitarian makes me very happy. I think that I still have a bit of work to be done, though, in deciding my exact position. I am no longer a moral realist, but I think that myself and other people still have good reason to adopt utilitarian ethics based on our goals.

I'm just in the process of picking a career right now but my plan is to work a high paying trade (tree-planting for now later as an electrician as well) while listening to audio books. If I manage to develop some really useful knowledge and skills while doing this I will do some direct philanthropy but until then I will just make money and donate.

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Re: This is a Good Site to Find!

Postby Ruairi on 2012-04-12T02:27:00

heya welcome!:)!

as regards careers i guess you already know about 80k? http://80000hours.org/
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Re: This is a Good Site to Find!

Postby CosmicPariah on 2012-04-12T03:57:00

I do and thank you. I plan to register there soon as well.

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Re: This is a Good Site to Find!

Postby Brian Tomasik on 2012-04-12T06:36:00

Welcome, Max!

I'm not a moral realist either, but an emotivist. However, I still care about reducing suffering because... well... because I care about reducing suffering. :)

For career discussion, in addition to 80K Hours, you might also check out what is probably the longest thread in Felicifia history. If you Google for {careers site:felicifia.org}, you can find plenty of other discussions, too.

I don't think we've ever mentioned tree planting or electrical work, though. Any ideas how much those pay? They're not common career choices for the Oxford students in 80K Hours, but people say they give good salaries. Listening to audio books is a nice bonus!

Any ideas where you might donate your earnings?
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Re: This is a Good Site to Find!

Postby CosmicPariah on 2012-04-12T07:46:00

Thank you!
Tree-planting is mainly a Canadian thing and I could probably get up to earning 300$ a day in the next couple of years. I think Electricians earn about 60,000 - 80,000 a year after they are 'fully' experienced.
I think that by listening to non-fiction audiobooks all day I could get a better education than most other careers (Most careers seem like they only provide highly specific knowledge) and that they will keep me content enough to work long hours.

The singularity institute is would probably be my main choice right now. That's something I should I should do more research on. I was reading your post about the subject Alan Dawrst!

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Re: This is a Good Site to Find!

Postby RyanCarey on 2012-04-13T03:08:00

Welcome Cosmic Pariah! I hope you stay around so we can delve into these issues in proper detail!

What audiobooks are you reading?
You can read my personal blog here: CareyRyan.com
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Re: This is a Good Site to Find!

Postby Brian Tomasik on 2012-04-15T06:14:00

CosmicPariah wrote:Tree-planting is mainly a Canadian thing and I could probably get up to earning 300$ a day in the next couple of years.

Wow, that's really good! $300/day is $110K per year, assuming you could work every day of the year. (Maybe you can only do it in the summer?)

CosmicPariah wrote:I think that by listening to non-fiction audiobooks all day I could get a better education than most other careers (Most careers seem like they only provide highly specific knowledge) and that they will keep me content enough to work long hours.

Agree. If you can listen to audio books on your job, then those hours have almost no opportunity cost. (Of course, some things like math are hard to do by audio alone.) If you want to listen to things that haven't already been turned into audio format, you could get a text-to-speech converter and put the converted files on your iPod as well. (I've done this a few times, but I don't listen to things often enough to make it worth the effort.)

CosmicPariah wrote:The singularity institute is would probably be my main choice right now.

I'm currently less enthusiastic about SIAI than before in part because it works to reduce existential risk, but I think doing so could increase rather than decrease suffering in the multiverse:

"Are increases in existential risks good or bad?"
"A few dystopic future scenarios"
"Friendly AI and utilitarianism"
"should we be optimistic or pessimistic about the future?"

Here's a quote from one of my comments on a blog post that mentioned the topic:
As I said in one Felicifia discussion: “my current stance is to punt on the question of existential risk and instead to support activities that, if humans do survive, will encourage our descendants to reduce rather than multiply suffering in their light cone. This is why I donate to Vegan Outreach, to spread awareness of how bad suffering is and how much animal suffering matters, with the hope that this will eventually blossom into greater concern for the preponderate amounts of suffering in the wild.”

“Safe AI” sounds like a great goal, but what’s safe in the eyes of many people may not be safe for wild animals. Most people would prefer an AI with human values over a paperclipper. However, it’s quite possible that a paperclipper would be less likely to cause massive suffering than a human-inspired AI. The reason is that humans have motivations to spread life and to simulate minds closer to their own in mind-space; simulations of completely foreign types of minds don’t count as “suffering” in my book and so don’t pose a direct risk. (The main concern would be if paperclippers simulated human or animal minds for instrumental reasons.) In other words, I might prefer an unsafe AI over a “safe” one. Most unsafe AIs are paperclippers rather than malevolent torturers.
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Re: This is a Good Site to Find!

Postby Pat on 2012-04-15T08:55:00

Hi, Max! I've heard people mention electrician (as well as plumber) as being a high-paying occupation. Those sorts of career paths have the advantage not requiring extensive, expensive schooling.

I started a thread here if you want to share your audiobook suggestions.

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Re: This is a Good Site to Find!

Postby Ruairi on 2012-04-15T18:36:00

theres been some recent discussion about things Alan mentions above in the Utilitarianism facebook group ( http://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/ ... 496195636/ )

also you might be (very) interested in this one too:D http://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/ ... 198627087/
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