Hey everyone! I haven't posted on here, but I just have a problem I can't quite get over. I'm still doing my undergrad, and have been hoping to go into investment banking/finance as a career of professional philanthropy. But the more I look into this, the more I hear about "100 hour work-weeks" and no time for social/family life. I know it still seems like the right thing to do, because it seems to undoubtedly be the highest earning career. And I COULD push myself through it, but I just don't want to be miserable..

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/blog ... azard.html

If I still want to pursue professional philanthropy, what might be similarly (or nearly as) high-earning careers that don't have such an intense work-load? I think I would really enjoy finance work, just not the hours and lifestyle. But I'm open to other career fields.

Hey!

I was worried and unhappy about the same thing recently (I was in a similar situation, thought I might do something finance-y, not so sure now).

Have you talked to http://80000hours.org/ about it?

Also there was a recent thread here about australian incomes by profession recently http://felicifia.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=606

As far as I can remember it didnt seem clear that finace was definitely the way to go for professional philanthropists.

Personally (one of) the reason(s) im not sure I'm going to be a professional philanthropist is because at the moment I'm looking into how much money charities can make from fundraising (basically a lot). However if random people can be hired to do this work theres no need for us to do it. But I think maybe this wont be the case. Anyway when I finish doing that I'll post it in a thread here. If you're interested I can add you to the google doc I'm writing about it

The 100-hour workweeks apply to analysts. If you got a graduate business degree, you could become an associate and work less, maybe 60-80 hours a week. The hours get better as you climb the corporate ladder. Hours at a boutique investment bank might be better. I talked with an alumnus from my college who worked at a regional investment bank. He had a family and was a section leader in a very good symphonic wind band. He said he could work more but he chooses not to. I'm not sure how many firms offer that sort of flexibility.

I'm sure there are other jobs in the finance sector that pay well and have less demanding schedules, though I'm not sure what the all possibilities are. As Ruairi said, somebody at 80,000 Hours would be glad to help you. You could also check out your school's career-counseling center.

Thanks guys!

Ruari, 80k doesn't really address this topic. Most of what I know comes from friends of mine who are/are planning to be bankers. And the problem with the Australian thing is that banking salaries are not captured very well by those statistics. I can confidently say 5-15 years down the road, coming from a top university, banking salaries become seven figure. But your last point makes a lot of sense!

Here's the closest thing I could find from 80k, http://80000hours.org/faq
but it doesn't really address knowing if you'll burn out in specific careers.

Pat, I guess you've just heard different things than I have. But maybe you're right! And most other finance jobs I've seen (actuary, financial planner, accountant), are in the 100k-200k range rather than the 200k-600k range of doctors (in the US). Thanks for the advice!

Some possibilities:

Management consultant. You get to travel a lot.
Quantitative analyst. You have to be good at math.
Hedge funds
Private-equity firms

I don't know what the hours or pay are like. It might be very difficult to get jobs these sorts of jobs. You're right that there's very little information on the 80k website, but you could try talking with someone there. My impression is that they're investigating the expected earnings of various careers, though they haven't published much yet. Another possibility would be to contact alumni from your school who have careers that you're interested in.

Hi

I have been in investment banking for seven years.

Investment banking hours are longer in corporate finance but shorter in the capital markets but you can make more money in the capital markets than in corporate finance...or at least the same.

Also, the thing about seven figures is a bit of a myth - most people still earn high six figures even after 15-20 years in banking. As a proportion of bankers, those earning seven figures would be less than 5% and they would be concentrated in the big American banks. You don't have to work in America but do need to work for a big American Bank if you money is your top goal. The second best payers would be the big UK banks, Barclays then HSBC.

I chat more about the difference between corp fin and cap markets in my blogs.

Girl Banker
Founder of girlbanker.com

I'd put doing a startup on your list of options for making money.

Another point is that for some of the good utilitarian-type organizations, they need really great people to hire more than they need extra money. I think this is true of both GiveWell and GWWC/80,000 Hours. So there's something to be said for thinking about whether you could do a really excellent job working for one of those groups.

Welcome, both redroseoil and GirlBanker. It's great to have such bright people on this forum.

+1 for utilitymonster's startup suggestion -- see the 80K Hours blog post.

Pat wrote:Management consultant. You get to travel a lot.
Quantitative analyst. You have to be good at math.

Heh, I would have said those differently: "Management consultant. You have to travel a lot. Quantitative analyst. You get to be good at math." Frequent travel was the reason I ruled out management consulting so quickly.

I guess my guess of what associates work was wrong. This page says 80–90 hours a week, not 60–80 hours. That includes time for lunch and dinner, though, so I guess I work 50-hour weeks. And they couldn't possibly be doing honest-to-John work all the rest of the time. Even the His Holiness the Dalai Lama would have a hard time focusing on something for 80 hours a week. Some of that time is probably spent playing minesweeper, shootin' the breeze, and putting in face time to make the higher-ups happy.

I think it would be fun to have a week of sympathy for investment bankers (sort of like One Day Without Shoes). The goal would be to put in a 100-hour week, culminating in an all-nighter. Whaddaya think?!?

Pat wrote:This page says 80–90 hours a week, not 60–80 hours.

Most likely it varies between 60 to 90 hours depending on the firm and the busyness of the particular week. I've heard some weeks it could reach 100-110, and some are probably relaxed.

Pat wrote:and putting in face time to make the higher-ups happy.

Yes, I've heard there's a lot of face time even if there isn't real work to do. Might depend a lot on your boss, though.