Eliezer Yudkowsky on the Repugnant Conclusion

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Eliezer Yudkowsky on the Repugnant Conclusion

Postby peterhurford on 2012-07-27T01:14:00

This quote from Eliezer Yudkowsky puts pretty much puts all doubts I had regarding the Repugnant Conclusion with this little bit of his essay "The Lifespan Dilemma"

My own analysis of the Repugnant Conclusion is that its apparent force comes from equivocating between senses of barely worth living. In order to voluntarily create a new person, what we need is a life that is worth celebrating or worth birthing, one that contains more good than ill and more happiness than sorrow - otherwise we should reject the step where we choose to birth that person. Once someone is alive, on the other hand, we're obliged to take care of them in a way that we wouldn't be obliged to create them in the first place - and they may choose not to commit suicide, even if their life contains more sorrow than happiness. If we would be saddened to hear the news that such a person existed, we shouldn't kill them, but we should not voluntarily create such a person in an otherwise happy world. So each time we voluntarily add another person to Parfit's world, we have a little celebration and say with honest joy "Whoopee!", not, "Damn, now it's too late to uncreate them."

And then the rest of the Repugnant Conclusion - that it's better to have a billion lives slightly worth celebrating, than a million lives very worth celebrating - is just "repugnant" because of standard scope insensitivity. The brain fails to multiply a billion small birth celebrations to end up with a larger total celebration of life than a million big celebrations.


(If you need a refresher on what the allegedly Repugnant Conclusion is, see the relevant Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy article.)
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Re: Eliezer Yudkowsky on the Repugnant Conclusion

Postby DanielLC on 2012-07-27T03:12:00

You need a pretty odd utility function to make that work. If someone lives a life of constant low unhappiness, the net utility is negative, but the longer they live, the closer to zero it goes.

I could understand having death give negative utility. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. This, though, is crazy.
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Re: Eliezer Yudkowsky on the Repugnant Conclusion

Postby RyanCarey on 2012-07-27T12:11:00

Yeah, it's a better version of what I've tried to say on this forum before.
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Re: Eliezer Yudkowsky on the Repugnant Conclusion

Postby Arepo on 2012-07-27T12:39:00

I prefer your versions :P
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Re: Eliezer Yudkowsky on the Repugnant Conclusion

Postby Hedonic Treader on 2012-07-27T13:12:00

Once someone is alive, on the other hand, we're obliged to take care of them in a way that we wouldn't be obliged to create them in the first place

I don't even know what that means.

His other points have merit, but they're not exactly original.
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Re: Eliezer Yudkowsky on the Repugnant Conclusion

Postby DanielLC on 2012-07-27T19:48:00

but they're not exactly original.


You say that like it's a bad thing. If they're true, more people will believe them, so people believing them is evidence that they're true.
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Re: Eliezer Yudkowsky on the Repugnant Conclusion

Postby Jesper Östman on 2012-07-28T19:34:00

+1 Especially talented people (in the relevant way), which are independent. It might be less impressive (confer less status) but it is useful when trying to find out the truth.

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Re: Eliezer Yudkowsky on the Repugnant Conclusion

Postby DanielLC on 2012-07-28T20:53:00

On second thought, maybe it is a bad thing. The evidence given by an additional person saying something is a lot less than the evidence given by the first person.
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